WARNING Image may be disturbing to some viewers.
I have placed it at the bottom of this article if you want to see it.
Gibsons BC resident Carmen Peters on the Sunshine Coast is concerned for her livestock’s safety. She believes a neighbourhood dog viciously attacked three of her ewes. The neighbour’s say it was not there dog and believe it could have been a cougar, coyote or other dog.
Carmen tells me on the night of Wednesday, January 18th, 2012 “my neighbour’s dog had come into my yard to attack 3 ewes, with lambs by their sides. I need to push strongly on the fact the farm was here long before most other homes. Our fences keep out most critters. The llamas were afraid of this dog. I was sickened by the damage done to my ewes. I sewed up many gashes.”
She adds “the dog is still being let out, every time I hear it I jump outside.”
“This is how the whole thing went down. My neighbour came in to help with the livestock while I was out. She informed me that my ewes had been attacked in the stall.”
“One of the ewes had a horrible gash just above her right leg. Another gash was in her right flank.”
“I phoned the police right away and they were here within a real short while. They took a statement, and proceeded to tell me that they couldn’t do anything about the dog.”
“Then tonight (Thursday Jan 19th) I get a call from SCRD dog patrol. She said that because of the by-law she couldn’t do much but talk with the owners. It seems that nobody has the authority to move this dog out of farm country or dispose of it. This is a farm. Livestock are first. “
After hearing from Carmen about this, I phoned Corporal Steven Chubey, the Media Relations Officer for the Sunshine Coast RCMP. He told me he was not aware of the incident himself but would investigate it and get back to me with a statement in a couple days. I’ll let you know what he says.
Sunshine Coast Animal Control Officer Sue Spurgeon was also not available for comment as Fridays are her day off. I’ve sent a request for a statement and will share it with you.
Peter Longhi, Manager of the SCRD Animal Control department told me over the phone he will follow up with Sue next week once they have more information collected from the dog owner and Carmen, who’s Ewes were attacked in the barn.
The dog “Jake” who’s owned by Paul Tingley and Chris Tingley commented that a previous attack on the livestock occurred just prior to a cougar being trapped in the area. Chris says there is no proof it was their family pet that did this.
“Jake is my dog. The credibility of this story is sad,” writes Chris Tingley.
Paul writes “They also neglect to mention the last time they accused this dog, a cougar was trapped in the area a few days later. Perhaps if they would stop partly burying dead sheep to rot and attract all manner of wildlife they would not have so much loss of livestock. They also neglect to mention the neighbor who fixed their fence for them for free when it fell flat and they didnt bother to fix it- making no attempt to contain their livestock . Easier to go after the neighbor than fix the real problems.”
Below is a letter that Carmen’s neighbour Sam McKillop sent to the SCRD Dog Control officer.
I hope that this can be sorted out. Perhaps a motion activated video monitoring system. It would be tragic if blame went to an innocent dog.
If you check out the photos and article of the cougar cub and family cat whisker to whisker, their are numerous reports of cougar sightings all over the Sunshine Coast.
I’d like to hear from you what you think?
Post a comment below! Thanks Duane : D
Dog Attack & Mauling of Three Ewes
in Barn on Chaster Road in Gibsons, BC.
January 18, 2012
This Statement is provided by Sam McKillop
*Constable McPherson (Gibsons detatchment) responded on day of incident
File # not known
I ( Sam McKillop) am a neighbor of Carmen Peter’s where this violent incident took place.
I was asked to help/assist as needed, my neighbor Carmen Peters with care of her livestock (sheep & Llamas) as both she and her husband are dealing with serious & debilitating health issues.
At 4pm Wednesday, January 18, 2012 I received a call from Carmen that she was delayed in getting home from a medical appointment and my help feeding at the regular time of 4 to 4:30 would be appreciated. I went to their property at 4:15 to feed prior to it getting dark.
Upon entering the pasture I did not notice anything unusual. The Llamas and sheep in the outside paddock were together as if anticipating dinner. They did not appear distressed. My first priority was to check on the three ewes in the barn who had each delivered – two sets of twins and one single lamb. Upon entering the barn and looking in the stall containing mothers and offspring and saw wool everywhere and blood on the bodies of each of the ewes. One ewe was laying limp in a corner, the others were extremely agitated, large bare patches on their hides as huge patches of wool had been ripped off and tears and rips on their hides oozed blood and their offspring were confused & bawling. Their lambs (within 3 and 1 day old)
At first I was confused by what I saw and pondered whether one ewe had been aggressive towards another ewe but could not explain the blood or wool shards everywhere. I exited the barn to try and understand and ascertain what had happened and was confused as the Llamas, ram, and remaining ewes outside did not seem harmed or agitated.
When I stepped outside the barn & facing in the direction of Georgia Straight a large dog owned by the adjacent property to my right of where I was standing (258 Pratt Rd) appeared at the fence line barking very aggressively, blood covering its face and chest. I did not see where it came from it just suddenly appeared. The dog would have been about 30 feet from where I was standing and was the entire time I observed it on its owners property. The dog was focused on me barking and prancing on its front paws as if threatened by me but I was not on or near its property and was simply standing looking and trying to figure out what to do. I responded quietly initially as I wanted to understand correctly what had happened. I spoke with authority towards and at the dog as I did not want to elevate its aggressiveness towards me or provoke it further as it was highly charged.
The livestock outside became agitated by the barking of the dog and it was apparent that it was responsible for the attack on the ewes in the barn by its behaviour and the amount of blood covering its face and chest. I saw a person walking behind the home on the dogs property as I was attempting to tell the dog to go home and no attempt to call or restrain the dog was made. I was concerned given the bravado of the dog to not provoke it further as it did not respond to my commands and the animals I was supposed to be helping remained vulnerable and others were seriously injured. It remained on its owners property, it continued to bark aggressively from its own property and I again could see someone walking behind the house which is several hundred feet from where I and the dog were and still no response from the person I observed and I have no doubt that either myself or the dog barking could be heard. The distance between myself and the person walking on the dogs property would be about 300 feet plus or minus.
The owners of the livestock arrived home as I was trying to make the dog go away. I yelled to Carmen that the neighbors dog, known to both of us had entered the barn and attacked the ewes inside. Carmen ran to see for herself what had happened, broke down in shock at the destruction and extent of injury, suffering and now distress of her animals that prior to the attack were healthy, content and secure.
I didn’t know the dogs name but Carmen did and when she yelled its name ‘Jake’ the dog disappeared and I did not see it or the human that I had moments before observed.
After assessing the entire area where the animals are contained it was clear that the attack had taken place within the stall of the barn and nowhere else. I did not see where nor did I observe later where the dog may have entered the property. The attack was limited to within the stall and could only have happened by the dogs’ determination to overcome the height of the barrier of the stalls walls being some 3’ or more in height.
This attack was specific, contained and cowardly and could only be described as ‘blood lust’ as the dog that did the attack is well fed and had no need to do what it did other than it could. Given all the other animals present it preyed cowardly on the most vulnerable, mothers protecting their newborn in a stall that was meant for the exclusive purpose of protection, honor and respect for life. The dog that did this is a predator by nature and is used as a protection or guard dog by virtue of its breed as determined by human intervention & paranoia and to this day the owners of said animal have taken no responsibility for what their animal did nor did they protect the rights of others for what this dog is designed and capable of doing as this situation illustrates.
I believe Carmen called the owners to contain their dog that had just attacked her sheep. The police were summoned as no bylaw officers or dog control officers were available given time of day. The police were summoned one to report the incident and potentially to euthanize the one ewe who suffered extreme trauma and spare further suffering. We were informed upon the officers arrival that they were not allowed to perform euthanasia of livestock for fear of litigation. Carmen and I worked together sewing the ewes tears as best we could and trying to settle the injured well into the night.
The ewes were heroic in their effort to protect their offspring at great peril to themselves. We called the police as no one else was available after hours. We received no help or assistance because of threat of litigation though property taxes are paid that include police and Dog Control. Property was trespassed though fences define property. The dog and owner of dog have more rights than the most vulnerable selfless creature that we also feel free to exploit without accountability for its welfare because it is considered replaceable ie; there are more where they come from. Livestock whether it be horse, cow, sheep, pig, goat or any other animal we deem useful for our selfish purpose are deemed expendable, replaceable as if their life is insignificant.
I walked past the property where this dog lives on my way to work. The dog resembles a mastiff in size, frame and exerts its presence as a guard dog. It clearly defines and protects the fence line it patrols when it is outside and within its own property. It reflects the paranoia and uncertainty of its owners and does not reflect the society or community values I live by and pay for as a taxpayer. I am appalled by the indifference and inhumanity this incident reveals of our failed justice system locally, provincially and federally.
The dog would stand about 21/2 feet at the shoulder not including its head. The dog is predominantly white of body with black and or brown covering its head and face. The dog is large boned, heavily muscled, the head shape & body type that of a Boxer & Pit Bull shape only twice as big. This dog is built to be threatening and it is. This same dog is responsible for killing livestock some years ago (reported) and the owner has been told to keep their dog contained on its own property by the farmer.
This is a most regrettable incident and entirely preventable. As a taxpayer I request that this incident be dealt with fairly and given the priority it deserves.
Sincerely Sam McKillop
Cc to Lorne Lewis, Local elected Representative
Carmen Peters
Dog attacks and mauls Ewes. Photo Carmen Peters.
This is the exact reason that shotguns were invented. Use one Carmen. The dog is trespassing on your property and hurting your animals. Not a judge in the land would punish you for protecting your things.
UNBELIEVABLE!!!! Why do people keep such aggressive pets? That thing will attack a child or adult next!!! Ditch it!!!! What are they dealing drugs or something, and dont want people coming around?
How horrid! Those poor animals! How is it Animal Control can do nothing? Do they not realize that if the dog knows how to get out of his yard, it’s only a hop, skip and jump to an elementary school? Will it take a child being mauled?? We had two large but friendly dogs in the past, who once got out by accident. Three doors down was a sheep farm. That shotgun was out in two point five seconds. It was well advertised that the owner would shoot to kill, REGARDLESS of malice. My dogs, luckily followed the command to return…
Can they not charge the owners w/ their dog running at large? And since he was spotted bloodied could they not accuse him of the animal attack. In Powell River you are allowed to shoot animals wild/ or domestic attacking your livestock. I would suggest that if the authorities are unwilling to protect her live stock from a pet that is a danger to the community people and their livestock I would suggest the homeowner do what she must to protect them herself!
How horrible!Carmen is sure lucky to have Sam .Ofcourse,the owners of this dog have to be charged,and they have to keep this dog on their property..Is het possible to have the ewes with their newborn lambs,to be safe in a closed shed?It looks on the picture,it is open to the outside.When you have livestock,they should be locked up and safe,also to protect them from wildlife.
These poor ewes,must have gone through hell,did you try to get a veterinarian,for anaesthesia,while sewing up the many gashes?And antibiotics?How are they doing now?
its too bad the owner of the dog doesnt have a chance to tell their side of the story.
Thanks Melissa. It’s nice to see that someone believes there are two sides to every story unlike these easily swayed fools.
Jake is my dog. The credibility of this story is sad. I don’t think inadequate/false evidence should be in your so called ‘community values’ either Sam McKillop. FYI there was also no proof that Jake killed any animals in the past either. False accusations.
Perhaps they are trying for a writing job on the Fox network. Really, accusing someone of being a drug dealer because they don’t like their dog? Where is the site moderator here. Sounds like a slanderous statement to me.
They also neglect to mention the last time they accused this dog, a cougar was trapped in the area a few days later. Perhaps if they would stop partly burying dead sheep to rot and attract all manner of wildlife they would not have so much loss of livestock. They also neglect to mention the neighbor who fixed their fence for them for free when it fell flat and they didnt bother to fix it- making no attempt to contain their livestock . Easier to go after the neighbor than fix the real problems.
And by the way, Sam McKillop why shouldn’t this dog bark from his own property? Do you expect the SCRD to stop all dogs from barking on their own property. You are obviously buying into the false accusations and rhetoric. You’re being told what to think and not being objective. This is one of several times the dog has been accused of doing something like this by this woman and yet- nobody sees him doing it- they just assume. I suppose the cougar was just taking a walk in the area last time too. You know little of animal behavior and it shows. This so called vicious dog watches deer eat our garden and let’s small children ride him and pull his tail. Hardly the mark of a bloodthirsty killer.
Webster’s Dictionary – ‘Slander’ any false and insulting statement(law) an oral statemeant without due cause has the result, or is intended to have the result of bringing its subject into dispute (ef. LIBEL)
It is curious to me that someone who has never met me, who has never spoken with me has any idea how I think, what I think or what I feel. Slander is illegal and has consequences as it undermines character and in this case is used to distraact from the real issues and divert attention from the real issues rather than face honestly responsibly for ones action or consequence of inaction. Reporting what I saw with my own eyes honestly has consequences for all involved as I have nothing to loose or gain.
In both incidences the tracks around these stalls were of dog and not Cougar. Also, please keep your dog at the front of your yard. I am still attending the large gashes on these sheep. Thank you.
Cornelia, thanks for your comments. The ewes and babies are in locked stall.
Mr Tingley you are very defensive and are quick to refute what I say I saw & wrote in my legal statement. Were you at home Wednesday January 18, 2012 at 4:15 to 4:30?
Given the sound of your dog barking and my yelling at it to go home why did that person retreat and leave me there helpless? Why did no one come out to determine what was happening and if help was needed?
A story. A man breaks display cases Xmas eve as a gallery is closing attempting to steal valuable handmade jewellry. The thief is tackled by a woman in her sixties who pleads with the man to give her what he is attempting to steal. He refuses threatening to hit the women if she does not let go. The women says ‘If you were a man I’d let you’
Did you see the blood or do you deny seeing blood all over its face chest and front legs? sincerely Sam
on that day I was on the 3:30 ferry from Vanc. came home @ 4:15 and as usual our dogs came running to our gate when they heard me.I didn’t notice anything unusual from Jake, parked my car and I went to talk to my son who was in the shop( close to Carmen’s property).When our dogs bark aggressively,we usually check and investigate what’s going on,so on this time frame that this Sam person is talking about ,we never heard Jake barking and I was outside ’till 4:30 because I was unloading my groceries.So for this person to say that Jake was barking at her @ that time frame,it’s a lie!!!!!!!My son was on that shop since 2 PM on that day and I’m not going to elaborate more because it looks like a court case to me with all this big lie’s.
Sam
If you post something on a blog site you are likely to get a response and it’s usually not the one you are looking for. Your words constitute no more fact (and perhaps less) than anyone else’s.
By your own statement, you admit you never saw the dog anywhere but on his own property- by your statement approx 30 feet away- that would be at least 25 feet from the property you were on and separated by a fence approx 5 feet from you- hardly a threat to you or anything else on the Peters property. If you would confine your comments to facts it would make your claims more believable instead of employing embellishments and rhetoric.
FYI I cannot comment on your blood claims as I was not in attendance. What I do know is there have been erroneous claims made by the property owner before in an attempt to gain compensation and/or some kind of strange personal satisfaction. Also – the slander comment was directed at the person hiding behind the alias of dee – unless you are posting under multiple aliases.
The property owners have left carrion in their yard resulting in all manner of animals being attracted to the area. At what point will this property owner take responsibility for contributing to and facilitating the exact problem they are supposedly concerned about. Even fruit left on trees can be a hazard- just imagine what a rotten carcass would attract. I can always tell when there are wild animals about because the dogs are upset all night. Anyone who views the property would realize this is true and this condition may even be a hazard to human health. I suggest that if the owners truly want to be rid of unwanted visitors, they should clean up the premises.
Sounds to me that the live stock owner needs to re think their accusations, Leaving carrion in or on your property is asking for trouble. Do you not understand that? Pratt road is surrounded by natural corridors for all kinds of Wildlife, I have seen more black bear, coyote, cougar in the areas spanning from Bonnie brook to Shaw road then anywhere else on the coast. Seems like the real problem has only just been addressed by Paul, your lack of education on how to properly dispose of your dead live stock. Maybe due to your health issues Mr-Mrs farm owner you cannot properly manage a farm/live stock? That to me would be more of a concern for a family neighbourhood.
Time to start trying to charge the wildlife….. What a joke
The way this entire story is even written is bullshit and the writer is obvious biased wanting a story and is just looking for attention. Atleast you quoted some of what the Tingley family has had to say but your asking people to comment on something that should remain a private matter until they go to court. Now you’ve singled out a family and their dog, making it look like they are unresponsible for their pet & have other people in the community attacking & accusing them without ANY proof other than the dog has & was barking at you and supposedly was covered in blood.
Also, the fact that their is all this information of you not taking care of your fencing in the past & making it sound like your farm is more important than anybody living in the area is completely stupid. If it is true that your not properly disposing of your dead wild life than no wonder your having animals such as cougars attracted to your place. Which is also putting others in the area in danger.
The people responsible for owning the farm animals are also at fault for not having these animals properly secured. Youve blamed the dog in the past & have had a cougar in the area yet you leave the animals unattended and not properly secured.
HOW CARING & RESPONSIBLE OF YOU!
The damage done to those animals, those gashes. Don’t even look like a dog did that. Ive been viscously attacked by dogs twice in my life. Both times there was more than enough evidence of teeth marks to have the dogs dealt with.
Your saying.. The dog got over the fence..got into the barn stall..attacked the animals..jumped back over the fence and was either covered in blood or was able to have the blood cleaned off. Came back and proceeded to bark? If that dog was vicious he would have came right back over that fence or never even would have left in the first place!!
Until you have full proof that this family’s pet did this then you need to stop with the accusations. I mean you have people calling them drug dealers for fuck sakes. What is wrong with you?
No matter what the outcome of this, this being posted online for people to comment on is just plain wrong. Get a life.
If this was my pet I’d be raging at you for this bullshit. Wether the dog did it or not.
sorry, but this posting is doing nothing but possibly promoting slander. The situation needs to be properly investigated and then reported on.
Most farmers that have livestock in an Urban Interface forest environment construct barns that they can lock up at night so the wild animals can’t get in and rip them up.Responsible farmers also properly maintain fences to a standard that helps protect them by day.
These folks appear to have the idea that since they were there for many years, they can let their animals roam around and everything else has to conform to their needs.
Many coyotes, cougars, and bears frequent the area- perhaps they should clue in.
Some people need to calm down…This article in NO way biased!
All it does is state the facts. In no way does the writer state
which side they’re on he just writes what people said. You should leave
the article alone and get out of this fight because its in between the Tingleys and the lady with sheep.
Of course it is biased. Go purchase a dictionary bud.
Headline reads “dog attacks and mauls ewes” but no one saw it happen. Appears biased to me. Just saying.
“my neighbour’s dog had come into my yard to attack 3 ewes, with lambs by their sides.” (This is from someone that wasn’t even on the property at the time.)
Appear biased to me. Just saying.
Quote”It reflects the paranoia and uncertainty of its owners and does not reflect the society or community values I live by and pay for as a taxpayer.” Unquote
This is an extrapolation from an event he never even witnessed..written into what he refers to as a legal statement …could it be biased???.you decide.
Quote” The ewes were heroic in their effort to protect their offspring at great peril to themselves.” Unquote
This is about something he never even saw- Biased…you decide
I could go on but if you don’t get it by now you will perpetually miss the point due to your own bias.
For those that see the need to swear on their posts, we appreciate your support but please don’t curse people on our behalf. We don’t believe it helps or necessarily promotes good will from anyone.
i have known carmen and her spouse since the late 1960′s/early 1970′s. i have helped take care of all of carmen’s animals, at one time or another.
i have witnessed the dog, in question, jake venture on to carmen’s property on a number of occassions. he is slick and devious, and does bark aggressively once he is on his own property. he also strikes me as a possible fear biter. i used to be an assistant animal control officer for the dept. of national defence.
while carmen’s neighbour is presenting himself as nice and polite on this forum. this is not the impression i have received from that household. if i correctly recall the neighbour had an issue with the spca several years ago. feel totally free to correct me..if i have confused the neighbour with the other one..but i don’t think i have. there was an issue something to do about hanging pigs to be slaughtered. the air was absolutely rent with the screams of the pigs prior to their throats being slit. it was this rauckus squealling that brought about accusations of animal cruelty against this neighbour. they complaints filed in from all quarters. the entire neighbourhood was disgusted.
as for the fence being down. yes, very likely it was down at one point in time. i’ve helped repair it. carmen’s small farm is old and in need of repair. she and her spouse do what they can. but both have serious health problems. there can be and often are daily trips to the hospital for one or another of them.
jake might be exceptionally friendly with his family, however this is not the case with unknown people. he actually listens to carmen, but then he knows her.
as for half buried carrion. i have to wonder if it was half buried, or half dug up. dogs do like to dig, and especially they like to roll in carrion to help disguise their own scent.
jake’s owners have a responsibility to keep their animal contained and under control. jake’s trespassing has been going on for over five years. and that folks is something to think about.
it is mighty convenient that the lions, tigers and bears..oh my! coordinate their mischievous adventures at the same time that jake meanders over to carmen’s to have a little mutton snack.
jake’s owners should be protecting their beloved pet..by keeping him contained..then the “unverified” accusations couldn’t be hurled at him.
again..did the owners of jake not notice the blood on their dog, and wonder where it came from?
being diplomatic is the cornerstone of someone devious attemping to coerce other individuals into swallowing their side of an issue hook, line and sinker.
say with a smile and dulcette tones and maybe, ah heck, most likely the vast majority will believe the drivel and lies. how do you think the politicians get elected.
good luck carmen!
1. If Jake barks agressivly on his own property he is doing his job.We have had drunks and thieves coming into our property in the past and it scares my mother in law who has Parkinsons. In the event it appears to be bothering someone that should be there, we call him back.
2. If there was any credibility in the pig slaughter accusations, why wasn’t I charged? That was another baseless complaint launched by the same person. Anyone who has ever slaughtered a pig knows that they squeal when you catch them – they don’t like being caught. It doesn’t mean they were treated cruelly. Judgement from afar doesn’t translate into correct analysis. BTW- to my knowledge ,my other immediate neighbors had no complaints- they realize it is zoned for farming and animal slaughter is a normal occurence- just like on the Peters farm.
3. What Jake “strikes you as” has little to do with fact- you’re speculating.
4.By leaving carrion, Mrs Peters is actually “encouraging and baiting” animals to come there. She has a responsibility to maintain clean premises.She has admitted partly burying dead sheep, what don’t you understand or care about the health risk to the surrounding neighbors and the physical risk by attracting wildlife.
5. Her animals have frequently ventured on our side of the fence, including her dog. She made no attempt to keep them off our property while I made every effort to keep mine away from hers including fixing the fence after they said they weren’t going to bother and making her dog and chickens go home.
6. Being a self professed dog expert, you reinforce the notion that carrion will attract a dog but you place no responsibility on the person leaving the “bait” . Curious.
7. Your “impression” of my household when you don’t even know us doesn’t mean much just like assumption-based accusations. Lets see some real proof of something and I assure you, I will act.
Roz Griston,
You really should be questioning the other side’s credibility. This is someone that has made false accusations not only to my family in the past. She is even under investigation at her own workplace, BC Ferries for lying and false accusations on multiple occasions. The woman lied to the children of a fellow employee and then denied it. Her character and tendencies should harden the fact that these accusations are bald faced lies. In the end, if you don’t see what I’m getting at, I am truly sad you are putting time and effort into a deepening pit of lie.
Roz Griston (AKA?)and others with an axe to grind.
You have a right to your opinion as we do ours. The sad part is that the accusations made publicly in the first place were unproven allegations-and as far as I know still are; therefore, a reasonable thing to do would be allow the respondents time to explain their position to the authorities instead of embarking on an immediate smear campaign targeted at myself, my family, and my animals.
The authorities were apparently quite clear to her about their limitations under the law so, characteristically, instead of respecting the law, she set out to destroy our reputation with public accusations based on conjecture.This indicates to me a fundamental disrespect for the rule of law and the burden of proof.
She has dealt with any other issue that has arisen in this manner over the years, not like a neighbor, but more like a tyrant. Phoning anyone who would or had to listen hoping someone would buy into her storytelling.Some did. She started when we moved there in 1995 and has never stopped carping since even though we were acting legally and within our rights as property owners.
I was disappointed and a bit angry about this and argued our point of view in order that these accusations didn’t go unchallenged.I have every right to respond and question these allegations.
I understand they are not well (and I regret that) but that is no excuse for the way my family has been treated.Ill health is not a valid reason to dole out abuse.
Roz (AKA?)
In this case, being diplomatic and reasonable is not a devious tactic, it’s an ideology that goes to trying one’s best to be fair minded-even when angry. Giving respect even when one may feel it’s not due. Controlling one’s emotions in times of stress is not being sleazy as your paranoia suggests.
Carmen should try it
And you should at least know the people of which you speak before assuming their inadequacies.
to Chris,
your words to do with working on the Ferry are out of line.
You want things to be legal, this is not legal. There is a
point where confidentiality is necessary.
1. If Jake barks agressivly on his own property he is doing his job.We have had drunks and thieves coming into our property in the past and it scares my mother in law who has Parkinsons. In the event it appears to be bothering someone that should be there, we call him back.
in responnse to point 1. several times i have had jake bark incessantly at me, when feeding carmen’s animals. i do not ever recall hearing anyone from your household calling the dog off or back. i’ve been there in the morning at noon and about 4pm, and again at 8pm to lock animals up for the evening.
2. If there was any credibility in the pig slaughter accusations, why wasn’t I charged? That was another baseless complaint launched by the same person. Anyone who has ever slaughtered a pig knows that they squeal when you catch them – they don’t like being caught. It doesn’t mean they were treated cruelly. Judgement from afar doesn’t translate into correct analysis. BTW- to my knowledge ,my other immediate neighbors had no complaints- they realize it is zoned for farming and animal slaughter is a normal occurence- just like on the Peters farm.
response #2. having grown up rural with a family who raised pigs, i am entirely cognizant that pigs do squeal when caught. pigs also squeal when being hung for slaughter. the level and intensity and length of the squealling directly reflects on skill of the individual/s doing the slaughtering.
3. What Jake “strikes you as” has little to do with fact- you’re speculating.
3. my “speculation” is based on solid experience. quite frankly i would sincerely be concerned if i turned my back on jake. fear biters most often attack when the objective of their attention takes their eyes off of them.
4.By leaving carrion, Mrs Peters is actually “encouraging and baiting” animals to come there. She has a responsibility to maintain clean premises.She has admitted partly burying dead sheep, what don’t you understand or care about the health risk to the surrounding neighbors and the physical risk by attracting wildlife.
4. now you are speculating with regards to my care, concern and knowledge with regard to improperly disposed of carrion.
5. Her animals have frequently ventured on our side of the fence, including her dog. She made no attempt to keep them off our property while I made every effort to keep mine away from hers including fixing the fence after they said they weren’t going to bother and making her dog and chickens go home.
5. carmen’s chickens are free range during the daylight hours. they are locked up at night. the type of and height of the fence will not keep the chickens out of your yard.
yes, indeed the fence between the two properties needs repair. if carmen’s chickens and dog are an issue for you, why have you not made repairs to the fence to keep the unwanted animals of your property?
i know for a fact that carmen does not like her dog going on to your property. However, what livestock injury or damage has he caused on your property?
She also does not like her cats venturing in your direction.
6. Being a self professed dog expert, you reinforce the notion that carrion will attract a dog but you place no responsibility on the person leaving the “bait” . Curious.
6..responding to your allegation..that carrion was half buried..i replied..was it half dug up? if something is not deeply buried canines will dig. their sense of smell is much keener than ours. putting a few shovel fulls of their own “dirt” will often detract the dog from digging. unfortunately not everyone knows this trick.
7. Your “impression” of my household when you don’t even know us doesn’t mean much just like assumption-based accusations. Lets see some real proof of something and I assure you, I will act.
7. remember all the times i have been at carmen’s to care for her animals..i’ve seen you. you’ve been inside and outside. i’ve never seen you wave or tip your head to acknowledge myself arriving, parking or using the shared access driveway. i won’t go into details, but i also have heard loud angry voices, and more.
i am not a stranger to carmens’home, or bypassing yours. do you remember the little dark green car that frequently arrived at carmens? how about the mom’s and their little kids who would walk up the driveway to visit carmen’s unoffical neighbourhood petting zoo?
…and continuing with comments from chris..jake’s professed owner.
did you not read the part where i said i had known carmen and her spouse since 1968. his best friend even married my best friend.
i think i know this couple quite well. spreading gossip and rumours whether true or false is a clear indication of the spitefulness. is carmen perfect..nope. none of us are. you cross a distinct line when bring forth allegations of heresay.
both carmen and her spouse are among the caring and generous people i have ever had the pleasure to know.
and back to paul…roz griston aka? are you implying that i am not who i am? then may i suggest you visit your local newspaper archives. my name has appeared frequently there. i am a 1970′s graduate of elphinstone, prior to it burning down.
to both chris and paul there is nothing paranoid about me, or even my resasoning ability. i do make others paranoid, as i am a keen observer and work with facts not fiction.
look up diplomacy in the dictionary. your machevallian attempts to destroy carmen’s charactor and veracity fail.
just saying..as the kids say.
so, yes chris and paul, there really isn’t a santa claus, but there really is a roz griston..i have the birth certificate to prove it.
Just for your information, I had already photocopied all the comments coming from Paul and Chris. I see 1 has been retracted, but it is too late.
Whatever. Photocopy all you want.
if it was indeed a cougar it wouldnt have left the ewe alive.And it is the responsibility of the dog owner to “fence agaist his own” that is the creed of the real people.I f you are a farmer and tingley is not,you must fence against your own dogs.keep them in keep them safe keep your neibors safe.it shouldnt be up to the others to keep your dog out of their own place.
while the issue of the fence is indeed real, it is currently a red herring. the basic fact remains, that the sheep were in a locked barn. the door that was closed to protect the ewe’s and their newborns was breached by a dog, who has a known reputation for trespassing on the neighbour’s property.
the barn door’s lower half is aproximately 4 feet high. it took effort for the dog to leap/scale the door on the day of the attack. the dog was on the hunt, the ewe’s were it’s cornered prey.
the owners of the dog need to control and contain the dog. the dog who was witnessed with blood on his face, chest and legs. a dog who has been witnessed several times being off his property.
there are bylaws in place that requires owners to not let their dogs stray. these bylaws are in place because of incidents like this and others.
I saw the police and the dog control there on Wednesday feb.1……..I wonder what transpired.Thats the second time I’ve seen the police there.
I guess it’s time tingler should MAN UP!!!Call a spade a spade
Number 1 : I live close to this farm and pass it everyday walking my dogs, it is a mess and the property needs to be cleaned up. Its a hazzard and unsanitery for the animals that live there and the people. Of course with livestock your gonna have predators , dogs, cougars and you will attract rats etc, but it is up to you the owner to make sure you have proper fencing to insure the safety of your animals.
Number 2: If it was jake his instints wouldve kicked in and he wouldve mulled the ewes and little sheep to death and wouldnt have backed down. If he is that fixated he wouldve acheived in killing the lambs. Dogs are predators simple as that.
Number 3: Dee your comment is absolutly bullshit..what breed of dog is jake?? hmmm hmmm would you had made the same comment if he was a bichon or a golden retreiver? Out of all the dogs i’ve encountered in my life, I’ve only been attacked by
a cocker spaniel. I’m sure youre old enough I dont have to tell you to grow up. Quit with your jugement let me guess your the type of dog owner who crosses the street when you see a much larger dog coming your way or even better pick little fru fru up making and teaching YOUR dog to react negativly. you should apologize for your drug dealer comment that was childish and rude.
Number 4: Did anyone see the dog attack these poor animals? and has he had a history of getting out and doing this?? If he gets out then Yes its up to the owners of Jake to make sure he is properly fenced, to ensure the publics and his safety. No one will ever no forsure if this dog is responsible but I highly doubt it because there would not only be this one incident there would be many and this would be an everyday thing.
Number 5: To Jakes owners get your self a high stable fence to contain Jake, next time her animals get attacked you wont have the finger pointed at you and the next time her animals get attacked( because ive seen her fencing to protect her animals) she’ll be sorry she didnt have Jake to ward off the predator,Hmmm did anyone ever stop to think maybe he did that? If he aparently had drops of blood on him? Maybe everyone shouldnt be quick to blame Jake. Just another case of stupid human error and now this poor dog will suffer.
It appears Carmen called the RCMP and reported that Jake was seen by her attacking her sheep again and jumping out of the pen. She had previously posted that but has removed it because I have witnesses that were taking care of the dog at the time and he was nowhere near her property! The RCMP attended our home and found Jake clean and dry in the house. Facts speak louder than rhetoric.
Just reinforces many peoples opinion of her credibility.
“A third reported sighting occurred the morning of Jan. 23 where a cougar was up a tree across the street from Cedar Grove Elementary School in Gibsons.
RCMP attended to that complaint on Monday.
“A member of the public observed a large, adult cougar jump down from a tree and proceed in a direction away from the school,” said Smith. “Both the RCMP and conservation officer service were in discussion with school officials, which resulted in the school children being kept inside for part of the day as well as cougar safety information being provided to the school community. No further reports have been received on the whereabouts of the cougar in the area of the school, to date.
“Community members are advised to continually monitor children and pets, as well as try to have children stay in groups when out of doors. While outside, the public should make noise while active near forested areas and if confronted by a cougar: pick up children, raise arms above head, make aggressive noise while backing away, and do not turn your back or run.”
Smith added that in the past 12 months the Coast has received 97 cougar reports and one cougar has been destroyed.”
(Taken from Coast reporter Jan 25/12)
Where is Jake now? Is he still at home? or has he been removed? Last couple of times ive passed i have not seen him in the yard. hope he is ok
He’s Ok. Thanks (:0)
Oh good glad to hear, i would keep a close eye on Carmen though, people like that theres no telling what she might do.
given the condition of the ewes, jake wasn’t having an easy time taking them down. they were protecting their babies.
the reason jake stopped his attack on the sheep is obvious. sam arrived to feed. this sound alerted jake, who knew he was where he wasn’t supposed to be.
sam wasn’t looking for jake. ergo, jake had opportunity to flee the scene. the barn is a few hundred feet from where the feed is stored. sam discovered the attack when sam went to feed the ewes.
a few drops of blood? blood was on jake’s face, chest and legs. this is significantly more than a few drops.
and again with the red herring..ye olde fence. the clear fact remains the sheep were contained in a barn, with a secured door that was high enough that jake had to work to invade the sanctuary.
had there been a cougar in the area at the time and day of the attack, the outside and less protected livestock would have been significantly aggitated. jake is a known intruder and harrasser. once he leaves the livestock alone they go back to normal after the unwelcome disruption.
also, jake is well fed at home, therefore the attack on the ewes/lambs wasn’t done for survival. so, the sound of sam’s arrival would have been enough to drive jake off. jake’s reaction would be similar to if he had been caught ripping open garbage bags. dogs know they aren’t supposed to do it, but they do anyhow and skedaddle when a human comes into the vicinity.
carmen is not calling for jake to be put down. she wants him contained or removed from the area.
Hahaha! Fiction writer!! Now who’s speculating. Bwahahaha!!!!
Sorry.
Now that I read it your write its completely biased.
I highly doubt it was that dog…
There a lots of coyotes around at the moment so I think this woman is trying to blame something on a family to get herself out of the blame.
I think your dogs innocent.
also coyotes attack by biting the animals backside and I see in the photo that the sheep have a few bites there….just saying
careful mr. tingley your maturity level is showing.
the only thing, i was definitely speculating or assuming was that jake was well fed at home. the rest of my commentary comes from solid experience when dealing with dogs and livestock.
garrett anonymous..yes the ewe’s have been bitten on the backside. however the greater damage is on the front quarters.
please explain the blood on jake’s face, chest and legs? did the cougar or coyote do that too?
I’ve been around for a few years and I can spot a bullshit story from a long way off. I gained experience dealing with bullshit stories by paying for chickens in 1995 that my other dog had nothing to do with. It’s an attempted cash grab plain and simple. I have 52 years of experience with animals including running a farm with 200 + cattle, several thousand foxes, miscellaneous dogs, cats, rabbit, turtles, fish. Snakes, and even monkeys. I even routinely deal with bears, cougars, coyotes, elk, moose, and deer. Not to say that could hold a candle to being an assistant dog trainer with DND. Whether you care or not, I am telling youH now my opinion is it is totally uncharacteristic for an animal like Jake to suddenly rip open sheep when you affirm that he has been over there for several years playing with Radford- another dog that apparently ” runs at large” (OMG)- they play together for Christ Sakes! Now you’re saying, suddenly, after several years with easy access to sheep, chickens, llamas, etc all of a sudden he goes killer crazy and doesnt take the easy ones outside the barn- oh no- he climbs a four foot wall- rips up ewes- but doesn’t touch the lambs- And then quickly scales the wall and the fence so he can terrorize some feeding person from his own side of the fence. Bullshit! The most likely thing is he attacked the attacker because he knows the animals there and has not harmed them before. He hates cats because cats have hurt him before. If there was a cougar there’s I’m convinced he would attack it if he heard a commotion because he hates cats. He atttempted to play with cats before and they hurt him- that’s why. You’re so busy defending your friend you can’t think objectively. I have little doubt if Jake wasn’t there , those sheep would be dead.
And why in the world would someone who claims to have been terrorized by my dog not phone me and tell me that for two years or more- she phones about almost every other little thing I have ever done on my own property! Inconsistent because you’re painting a fictitious picture in some sort of sympathy for your friend who apparently is confused. I hope she feels better soon but It may take some work to normalize neighborly relations.
As for the blood, I can’t say because I wasn’t there- all I know is two of my family members were on the property and in the yard at the time and neither noticed any blood and neither heard any barking or yelling – one was approx 10 meters away in an uninsulated outbuilding. One would expect that they would have come running if it happened as reported – I know I would have- despite the nasty comments about my uncaring attitude.( even though I was in New York City and unlikely to be able to provide any assistance) All I can say is I have seen a lot of ” artistic license” used by people who apparently saw very little but are quite wllling to affirm they know what happened.
Honestly, I can’t believe people would profess to know what happened when they weren’t anywhere near the property at the time.
You have said that what is wanted is for my dog to be contained- I will do everything I can to ensure just that. If you want to keep yapping and blaming fill your boots but I’m done talking. You will see by my actions I mean what I say and if you have further problems, don’t come blaming me because it will be an uphill battle let me assure you. They say good fences make good neighbors and if that’s what it takes I’m all for it. If you expect me to wave and tip my hat, you might have to wait a bit. Better still, just attend your own business and I’ll attend mine according to the law ( the one that exists).
I
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/cos/info/wildlife_human_interaction/docs/bears.html
Provides links to USDA publications for protection of livestock from predators.
yes, rockford and jake sometimes play. most often on your property.
why would jake choose the enclosed ewes and lambs and not the other livestock? the smell of fresh blood from the birthing process. if you are as experienced as you claim with livestock, exotic pets and wildlife, i should not have to explain this to you. moreover, you would also know the lambs were being protected by their mothers. hence no damage to the lambs. quite likely once jake breached the security of the barn door and if he even attempted a sniff at any lamb. the ewes would go on immediate attack and jake returned the same.
but, hey you claim to be very knowledgeable about animals..so you should have figured it out.
if you were out of town when the attack took place you are also basing your conclusions on heresay. sam wrote what was witnessed to the rcmp. it was shared with this website.
and before you counter with people lie to the rcmp. kids lie to their parents too.
what happened in 1995 has no relevence to this instance, unless jake was also the alleged perpetrator at that time too. then it is a clear indication that jake is considered a threat to livestock, then and now.
If I had sheep, I would construct a proper barn that could not be breached by any large animal while birthing -(not rocket science – just proper husbandry). As I have noted previously, The complainant has a history of negligence when it comes to protecting their animals and containing them.
When I was farming, we constructed adequate facilities to protect the stock including predator proof chicken coops to put them in at night so nothing could get in. If we let them out during the day, it was in an enclosed yard- not just all over the neighborhood- even though we owned all the land around we knew it was too risky.It’s not fair to expect a predator not to do what they do to survive.
The property is in a wooded area with all kinds of predators. The complainant has previously stated there have been no cougars coming to her place but they have been trapped on Mahan Trail and been seen many times at Cedar Grove school so it’s not much of a stretch to believe there is nothing stopping them from coming to the feast they set out for them. I have personally seen coyotes, bears, and racoons frequenting adjacent neighboring properties. I have noted improperly buried carrion and have seen dead chickens being packed around by racoons and left in various places nearby.
You have, by your own admission, attended the premises many times and know full well the state of the facilities – nuff said.IF you have animal experience as you say, you must be aware the premises do little to protect from an even timid predator.
As a farmer, I accepted responsibility for doing all I could to ensure there was less chance for a problem rather than letting everything deteriorate so it contributed to problems. By extension of their own arguments, predators were there before farm animals.
Perhaps its becoming like those cat persons where they just keep getting more animals and can’t properly maintain the premises and care for them properly. If they can’t hire someone to take up the slack, maybe they should think about getting rid of them.
As I said before, easier to blame the neighbors than look at the causes of a problem.
As for 1995 – goes to credibility of the complainant (not unlike many more ready examples) – none with me.
BTW I am glad you found the USDA link interesting and constructive.A lot of behavioral research has been done in the “Urban Interface” areas and protocols have been developed to decrease conflicts like this one if people take it seriously and accept responsibility for things they can control. That includes adequate facilities and minimizing attractants.
I am committed to doing my part, will they step up and do theirs?
amazing mr. tingley. you constantly blame the victim. you seek ways to destroy their credibility.
you paint yourself as the victim. yet, your dog has a known reputation of straying off your property.
Have you Fixed your Fence?
Is your Dog contained?
You significantly avoid and spin answers. One can only guess that perhaps you been reading the conservative directives on to avoid the truth.
my vote goes to eyewitness, who has/had nothing to gain.
As far as I know, The victims were sheep and I definitely don’t blame them. I feel badly for their injuries but it happens – especially when the owners fail to provide for their basic needs. As for the complainant, I have been trying to point out deficiencies that put her livestock at risk- but it’s not well received because she doesn’t want to do anything to correct those deficiencies unless she can fabricate a story to ensure someone else gets blamed for her deteriorating premises and the lack of protection they provide. . As a matter of fact, I just fixed her fence- again- for free- but that won’t help the rest of the premises that do nothing to protect her livestock. Predators still have ready access to the premises and it’s only a matter of time before she blames someone else for some other problem.
I am upgrading more of my fences as soon as I can and have had my dog contained since the incident -not that I expect it will ever be enough because you folks never quit. It goes without saying you believe the original Fox News account because you have never deviated from that view even though there was no proof and no witness that saw the attack. Ever heard of the little boy who cried wolf? That has happened several times and it’s getting to be an old tune. If she had done that once or twice, it might have worked again but I have seen it for 17 years and it never changes.
Had I met a truthful and concerned neighbor that showed respect, things could have been different.
As for me destroying her credibility, that’s not possible as she did that many years ago all by herself.
There’s an important point here- the eyewitness you refer to readily admits they did not see the attack and did not see our dog on the complainant’s property that day. Two other people in close proximity at the time do not agree with the description of events – saw no blood and heard no barking or yelling. The circumstantial evidence does not constitute proof and you can vote on it all you like but it is flawed.
Backyard chickens/poultry have become a bear attractant that is beginning to rival garbage on the Sunshine Coast. The reports to the conservation officer service RAPP line are reflecting this, with most calls coming in from the Roberts Creek area.
Bears are initially lured to the smell of the feed. They can detect it from over a kilometre away. Chicken feed (and the seed found in bird feeders) contains lots of protein-rich calories for a bear. Once the bears have come to your property for the feed, it won’t be long until they discover a chicken or quail. They will quickly become food-conditioned to poultry and they will keep coming back. This poses a threat to public safety and usually ends in death for the bear.
Black bears are extremely fast learners with an extraordinary memory. Destroying the bear or bear families will not alleviate the problem. Eventually, another bear will be lured, and the cycle will continue.
Enjoying self-sustainability with your backyard chickens can be achieved. The most effective non-lethal form of bear management is the use of electric fencing. Information on electric fencing is on the Bear Aware website http://www.bearaware.bc.ca.
Responsibility is key to successfully co-existing with the habitat that interfaces our properties.
Let’s try to keep our bears in the wild; please use proper husbandry with poultry and livestock. If you are not ready to use electric fencing, please consider feeding poultry in a shed or coop with feed dispensers and clean up any seed/feed that is spilled. The neighbourhood, your farm animals and the bears will be safer.
Kim Drescher
SC Bear Aware
Subsequent to this incident there have been two documented occasions where the complainant has stockpiled bags of stale bread and rotten vegetables (chicken food) up against the fence that I fixed- attracting dogs in the daytime and judging by the consistent uproar by neighborhood dogs at nights, nocturnal predators . These food items were not contained in anything but plastic bags and boxes and were left there for days.
That’s the kind of co-operation I have come to expect and experience. I hope they will change this situation for everyone’s peace of mind and safety.
As well as the safety of their own farm animals…that are just innocent victims of their mismanagement.